Let's talk about the Dedham Times Gonzales Field editorial

Gonzales field (4.00 / 1)

Gonzales field is the most used soccer field in town and losing it before another field could be built down Striar would have a grave impact on Dedham Youth Soccer programs. It is the most permitted soccer field for youth & adult soccer.

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by: JM @ Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 13:22:53 PM UTC

Net loss (0.00 / 0)

If we were to take Gonzales for the police station and turn the Dolan Center into protected parkland, there would be a roughly equal amount of protected parkland in town.  There would be a loss of playing fields, however.  Which is more important?  The amount of land that has an official designation, or the amount of usable land?  

I supported the purchase of the Dolan Center because for a town our size, and with the number of youth sports programs we have, we didn't have enough playing fields.  I don't want to move backwards in that regard.  

We could either lose a couple acres of green space, or we could lose a patch of asphalt.  I'd much rather the latter, even if it is slightly further away from Dedham Square (though closer to the geographical center of town).

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 14:45:15 PM UTC

Less asphalt (0.00 / 0)

What about the huge unused parking lot across from the VFW, by the old Dedham TV - could that be turned into a field? It would mean a field close to the main parking for Memorial, less asphalt in an area which has drainage issues, and the police station could move to Gonzalez.  

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by: barney miller @ Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 15:39:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The old UPS parking lot (0.00 / 0)

would have to be purchased by the town to develop anything there.

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by: JM @ Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 15:18:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So when pigs fly, then? (2.50 / 2)

If Gomzales is off limits until the Stiar property is developed, then I expect no progress is my lifetime, or my kids's lifetime.

Doesn't Dedham have tons of soccer fields? I don't know anyone who plays but aren't there fields at Memorial Park, Rustscraft Road,  the High School? The elementaries? The pool? I think there is a field next to Staples, too. Condon Park? The Dolan Center?

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by: plums @ Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 01:53:47 AM UTC

Town Hall And BOS Wants Quick & Easy... (0.00 / 0)

The Police Station should have a higher priority than soccer fields, if the Town really wanted to put the Police Station at Gonzalez, they would find a way to make it work, but they don't, they want quick and easy.

Gonzalez is the best spot, it could be a Police and Fire Combo site.
Making the Dolan Center park land would be a good trade off. What is the problem with putting some athletic fields at the Dexter School or at the old Town Dump, which in now already under the control of the Parks and Rec. Dept? When is the Park & Rec. Dept. going to do something with that land?

There should be a time limit to develop the land at the old Town dump, if nothing is done after a certain period the land should revert back to the Town. How long should a parcel of land controlled by the Park & Rec. Dept. be held in limbo?

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 02:15:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Town Meeting (3.00 / 1)

put together a committee to research the old dump for development, they found that old dump hadn't been capped and any development would require it to be capped under current EPA standards at a cost of millions for the 7+ acres.

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by: JM @ Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 15:15:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Soccer fields (3.00 / 2)

The town has 4 11x11 soccer fields during the peak usage during the fall. 1 at Gonzales, 2 at Memorial and 1 at Rustcraft.  In the spring, the 2 at Memorial become the outfields for two baseball (Davis & Heaphey) fields and the 1 at Rustcraft becomes an outfield for Collins Field.  Dedham Youth Soccer does have limited use of the Rashie School Field and some use of the HS Field, but not enough to fill their entire schedule.  Dedham Youth Soccer is great about positioning their 6x6 and 8x8x field in smaller parcels like Condon & Pool Field or sub-dividing Gonzales into two or three fields. Any of the school fields are under the control of the School Committee.

The field next to Staples is Gonzales.

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by: JM @ Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 15:34:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great Info. About Athletic Fields! (0.00 / 0)

I never knew the breakdown of the present fields usage. Many people like myself probably do not know the scheduling details. It might be helpful to put the above consolidated field info. on the Park & Rec. website.

Some residents think we have enough fields, but it looks like from the info.  that we could possibly use more.

Do you know how many more fields we need and for which sport and site?

Does the RFP for Striar fill all future field needs?

Does the RFP have only one layout option, or does it have a second layout in case the Senior Center is built there, as per the original draft layout with two options?

thanks!

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 02:31:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Break down of field use (4.00 / 1)

We will start with the schools
Capen- 2-softball diamonds,  
Fall- used for practice for flag football and soccer,
Spring-Dedham Girls Softball, Ursuline High School SB, used for practice for youth soccer
Oakdale- 2-Little league diamonds,  
Fall- used for practice for flag football and soccer,
Spring-Dedham Youth Baseball, Summer- Dedham Youth Baseball, used for practice for youth soccer
Greenlodge- 2-Little league diamonds,  
Fall- used for practice for flag football and soccer,
Spring-Dedham Youth Baseball,  used for practice for youth soccer
Riverdale- 1-Little league diamond,  
Fall- used for practice for flag football and soccer,
Spring-Dedham Youth Baseball and Dedham Youth Soccer, used for practice for youth soccer
Middle Sch-1 Softball diamond,
Fall- used for Dedham Girls Softball,
Spring- used for Dedham Girls Softball and Dedham High Softball,
Summer- Dedham Girls Softball
Dedham High- 1 turf field-Permitted by HS at a cost to all youth programs.
Pool field- Multi-Use field,
Fall- HS Field Hockey and Dedham Youth Soccer,
Spring- HS Lacrosse and Dedham Youth Soccer,
Summer- Recreation Swim & Gym program

Rashi School- 1-Soccer Field & 1 Baseball Diamond,
Fall & Spring- Dedham Youth Soccer on weekends only

Recreation parks:
Memorial Park, 1 Softball Diamond and 2 Baseball Diamonds
Fall- Baseball diamond outfields turned in to 2 11X11 soccer fields & 2 6x6 soccer fields for Dedham HS & and Dedham Youth Soccer, practice areas or game field for Dedham Pop Warner
Fall- Softball field used for Adult Softball Leagues and practice areas or game field for Dedham Pop Warner
Spring- Baseball diamond outfields fenced in for Dedham HS Baseball & Dedham Youth Baseball, beyond the fence Dedham Youth Soccer practice area
Spring- Softball field used for Dedham HS Softball & Dedham Girls Softball, Adult Softball Leagues.
Summer- Baseball diamond outfields fenced in for Dedham Youth Baseball & Adult Baseball Leagues, beyond the fence Dedham Youth Soccer practice area
Summer- Softball field used for Dedham Girls Softball and Adult Softball Leagues.
Gonzalves- 1 11x11 soccer field
Fall- Dedham High Soccer, Dedham Youth Soccer and adult soccer leagues
Spring- Dedham High Lacrosse, Dedham Youth Soccer and adult soccer leagues
Condon Park, 1 Little League/Softball Diamond
Fall- Dedham Hs Football practice area, Dedham Youth Soccer & Adult Softball Leagues
Spring- Dedham Hs softball/Baseball practice area Dedham Girls Softball, Dedham Youth Soccer & Adult Softball Leagues
Summer- Adult Softball Leagues
Paul Park- 1 Little League Diamond
Fall- used for practice for flag football and soccer
Spring- Dedham Youth Soccer practice area and Dedham Youth Baseball
Summer- Dedham Youth Baseball
Fairbanks Park-3 Little League Diamonds and 1 11x11 soccer field
Fall- Dedham Youth baseball on 2 Diamonds only, Dedham HS Soccer & Dedham Youth Soccer, Adult Soccer club
Spring- Dedham Youth baseball on 3 Diamonds,& Dedham Youth Soccer on ½ soccer field
Summer- Dedham Youth baseball on 3 Diamonds
Dolan Center-1 Softball Field
Fall- used for Dedham Girls Softball
Spring- used for Dedham Girls Softball and Ursuline Softball
Summer- used for Dedham Girls Softball
Churchill Park- 1 Softball field
Fall- used for Dedham Girls Softball
Spring- used for Dedham Girls Softball and Dedham HS Softball
Summer- used for Dedham Girls Softball

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by: JM @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 03:51:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Other (3.00 / 1)

This doesn't include the multiple one day permits for fundraiser or school events at the parks.

I did this from memory, so hope I didn't miss anything.

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by: JM @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 13:42:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great Breakdown Of Field Usage Details! (0.00 / 0)

Looks like keeping track can get quite confusing, does the P&R Dept.  use any scheduling software to keep track?

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 03:33:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Our Director (3.00 / 1)

does a great of putting it on a spread sheet so we can easily see any conflicts.

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by: JM @ Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 04:03:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

More info. (3.00 / 1)

Do you know how many more fields we need and for which sport and site?

Based on public input, the youth leagues, the Open Space Report, National Recreation Standards and input from the Recreation Director.  The greatest need is for more multi-purpose fields for Soccer, Football and future growth in Lacrosse to be built at Striar.

Does the RFP for Striar fill all future field needs?

The Manor Fields Scoping Committee has determined the following recreational needs for the town from the input above.
2 Multi-purpose turf fields, 3-4 Tennis Courts, 2 Basketball Courts, Walking Trails with exercise stations, Playground, Horseshoe/Bocci Courts, plus a Concession/Restroom/Storage building and ample parking.

Does the RFP have only one layout option, or does it have a second layout in case the Senior Center is built there, as per the original draft layout with two options?

The Manor Fields Scoping Committee is in the process of reviewing the RFP's to hiring a Engineering firm to provide the entire design of the Recreational component of the property.  The proposed land for Senior Center is not included in the project.  The COA was invited to a meeting to determine their interest on being included, but they chose to focus their attention on the Fairbanks Estate.    

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by: JM @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 13:29:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oops (3.00 / 1)

Forgot to add the dog park to Striar Plan.

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by: JM @ Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 03:05:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Question? (0.00 / 0)

Regarding, "the proposed land for Senior Center is not included in the project.  The COA was invited to a meeting to determine their interest on being included, but they chose to focus their attention on the Fairbanks Estate."

I'm confused, I thought once article 7 passed that the "site selection process" was out of the hands of the COA and that all parcels of available land such as Striar would need to stay available until the "Senior Site Committee" ruled it out as a possible site?

So, how can the P&R proceed with the RFP without the Senior
Center portion being included?

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 03:42:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The COA land is not part of this project. (3.00 / 1)

It will just stay as a plot of land earmarked for a Senior Center

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by: JM @ Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 04:06:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not sure why across from the St Mary's parking lot is such a problem (4.00 / 2)

Using the parking lot on High Street doesn't really put the police station that far away from Dedham Center.  Plus, the idea of the police isn't just to protect the town center, it's to protect the entire time.  From the St. Mary's lot, the police would have quick access to almost all of Dedham either by heading down High St to East Dedham or by Mt Vernon St or up High St to the Center or down East St towards the East St Rotary.  There's no major constriction due to the traffic in the Center.  

While my child doesn't play soccer, it seems to me that the replacement of green space with asphalt is a mistake when there is a fully paved area just begging for something to be done with it.

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by: Rigby @ Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 13:42:47 PM UTC

Feasibility Study (3.00 / 1)

It's not that St. Mary's is a terribly objectionable spot (except according to the neighbors of St. Mary's...)

But, according to the scores listed on the BPCC's 2009 feasibility study , there are five sites in town that would be a better pick ---including the current police station location.  Now obviously there are a lot of factors at play and the one study is only a part of it. But in this study, Gonzales Field was the preferred spot by a good margin, and a Selectman brought it up as the preferred site too.

The study, which I found linked to at this blog, is available at http://www.dedham-ma.gov/index...

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by: plums @ Mon Feb 25, 2013 at 17:48:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Taking The Study Out Of The Vacuum (3.50 / 2)

While St. Mary's may indeed have graded out as the fifth-most preferable site, take a close look at the scorecard to see why. The St. Mary's site received a "5" (the worst score possible) in the category of "zoning." I take this to mean that there are some complex permittings and accommodations that will need to be worked out prior to construction, while Gonzales (which received a "1" for zoning, the best possible score) has none of these issues. Does anyone really think that zoning will pose a serious obstacle to the construction of the station at St. Mary's? I don't doubt that whatever zoning issues exist will muddy the process, but if the town didn't think it could get past these issues they would not be proceeding.

Not to mention - every single one of these scoring categories was weighted the same? I can't believe that "zoning issues" are anywhere near as significant a factor as "size," "access response," "distance from center" or "security" - yet it's given the same statistical weight as each of these other categories. If we assume that zoning issues will be cleared and cared for prior to construction, the Gonzales and St. Mary's site grade out just one point apart across all the other categories (12 vs. 13).

Another concept to consider is that this study was to select the best site for the police station, taking into account ONLY the police station. I see no mention of how site selection will impact other town services or surrounding neighborhoods, the viability of parks & recreation, and the availability of open space. The results of this study need to be taken in the context of "here are the viable options - now consider how building on each site will impact the rest of the town as well." In the end, the best site is the one that provides a functional, modern police facility while preserving and enhancing the surrounding community. And with the very limited amount of open/recreation field space we have in this town, the loss of a full-size grass athletic field would be a significant blow.

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by: stebivule @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 13:18:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you (0.00 / 0)

So all things being equal, it seems to me that Gonzalez field is the worst option.  Think about how bad that intersection is during rush hour and now add a functioning police station to the mix.  

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by: Rigby @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 15:58:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The worst option? (3.00 / 1)

The Building Planning Commission and Selectmen considered it the BEST, not sure where you came up with worst.

I agree with stebivule that the study is just one factor to consider, and that it's not really true that all factors should be weighed equally. We have some control over zoning, but not much over floodplains....

Personally, I'm not opposed to the St. Mary's location. But I do think this is a valuable conversation, and I'm glad the Dedham Times put out its editorial.  It is curious that the Selectmen still control the Dolan Center instead of Parks & Rec.  What are they waiting for? The final dog park? The canoe launch (even though you already can launch a canoe)?   The Striar property to be developed?  Whatever it is, I thought it was a clever way to take advantage of that fact.  

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by: plums @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 18:08:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just my opinion (0.00 / 0)

After reading the blog and also stebivule's posting, I just came up with the opinion that Gonzalez is not the best location.  My opinion, no one else's.  Sort of like how the Commission decided it was the best location.  That's there opinion.  I really came to this conversation to see if there was a reason that St. Mary's was being pushed aside and it seems like there's no real reason.

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by: Rigby @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 20:39:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good points (6.00 / 1)

There's a tendency to comment only when you disagree with someone, but in this case I have to praise stebivule for making excellent points. Given that the town is the one that controls zoning, it's hard to see how zoning could be a big problem. And the even weighting of disparate categories certainly makes no rational sense.

I'll add here that is shouldn't matter where the police station is, as long as it's not at the far end of town for anyone. When you call the police, they don't get up from desks and get in the cruiser - they're already out on the streets. The St Mary's site is as centrally located as it needs to be. Whether another site is better is another matter, but there's nothing wrong with High street. Norwood's safety HQ isn't in Norwood square, and it's location is fine.  

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by: manorman @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 17:57:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

what about the Dexter School site for fields? (3.00 / 1)

If Gonzalez field is in fact the best option for a police station (seems it would also be large enough to fit a Senior Center on that site as well) then why can't the land surrounding the Dexter School, which the town already owns, be used to replace the fields?  

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by: marben103 @ Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 19:03:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dexter Under School Committee Control (3.00 / 1)

The BOS would need to have that discussion with the School Committee.

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by: JM @ Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 14:46:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Question? (0.00 / 0)

Does the School Comm. control the entire acreage of land/some portion thereof or just the school?

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 19:40:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I believe they do (3.00 / 1)

control the entire lot.

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by: JM @ Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 20:32:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, I Was Not Sure From Memory (0.00 / 0)

Do you know if the COA went before the School Comm., or the BOS for approval of their proposed Senior Center Project in 2008?

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 20:47:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

School and town meeting (3.00 / 1)

At the the they went before the school committee.
And article in town meeting was approved moving jurisdiction of the parcel to the BOS.

After the voters turned down the override, an article in town meeting was passed turning the parcel back to the schools

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by: cebonvini @ Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 02:32:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good Info. Thanks! (0.00 / 0)

Does anyone know why the School Dept. should have full control of the entire 20 plus acres of unused land for the past 5 years when the Town could use it for other future municipal purposes?  

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 18:10:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Unused? (3.50 / 2)

It is income generating (leased to a daycare) and will be the site of the new preschool / kindergarten. Theoretically. I have been hearing that for years and years, and I will believe it when I see it.  But that is what the school wants to do with it, once they get funding. I don't think it's a serious contender for a non-school use.  

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by: plums @ Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 20:12:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

20 Plus Acres? (0.00 / 0)

Thanks, my question was mainly about the large unused portion of land which the School Dept. has no plans to build on, now or in the future.

Why should the School Dept. sit on so much unused available land?

Would it be prudent for the Town to take a portion of it back?  

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Mar 14, 2013 at 19:01:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I get that (3.00 / 1)

But let's not set up soccer fields before the school thing is settled because that just adds another player to consider when negotiating the new use of the building, and pushes the problem of having enough soccer fields down the road rather than solving it.

Whatever happened to developing the Striar Property anyway? That's 25 completely useless acres .....

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by: plums @ Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 01:42:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Manor Fields Scoping Committee (3.00 / 1)

is in the process of hiring an engineering firm to design the new athletic complex at Striar.

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by: JM @ Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 02:23:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

to JM & Brian (0.00 / 0)

Hi JM,
Thanks for the update - that's great news.

Hi Brian,
Have you considered refreshing the site's design to make it a bit more conversation-friendly?  I appreciate that you have this blog at all, but, I would also be grateful for a new format!

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by: plums @ Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 21:27:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

How so? (0.00 / 0)

What would you like to change?

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 23:41:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Comments (0.00 / 0)

The nesting is not easy to read, is what I was referring to.

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by: plums @ Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 18:24:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you know a better platform? (0.00 / 0)

I'm open to a change, but I didn't design this site.  I pay the company that did each month to host it.  If you know of a better platform, I'd be open to switching.  I just don't know of any.

As for the nesting, when it gets to a certain point the columns stop getting smaller.  If they didn't the columns would eventually become so small as to be unreadable.  You can always click on "parent" to see the comment to which this is a response.  

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 02:42:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"unused?" (3.00 / 1)

much of that land is wetlands that cannot be built upon

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by: FredCivian @ Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 15:25:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Feasibility Study (3.00 / 1)

The feasibility study is out of date, there are now new homes that have been built on one half of the parking lot. In order to build a Police Station the wooded area next to the lot will need to be cleared and the size of the building may need to be reduced.
I don't think you need any special zoning in order to build a Public Building.  The zoning issues are due to the fact that the police station will be built in a residential area whereas a commercial area is a more preferable location for a police station.  
The location of the St. Mary lot makes it perfect for snow storage, expansion of the cemetary or a senior center(since it is right next to senior housing). A Police Station is probably not the best use of this property.
The current location of the police station is excellent, why not just build another level and expand the building which would be a lot less expensive.
 

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by: curveguy @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 at 21:09:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Residential areas (0.00 / 0)

When I lived in Dedham Square I was one of the police station's closest neighbors, and yet I can't remember a single time I ever heard a police siren, or indeed any noise coming from that building at all.  It was much more common to hear a fire engine driving down Washington St., and even more common to hear buses making stops in front of the cigar shop.  Anyone who doesn't want a police station in their neighborhood because of noise concerns has nothing to worry about.

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:06:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Residential Areas (0.00 / 0)

I don't think it it the noise that is the issue with the police station being in a residential area..It is the fact hundreds of criminals or alleged criminals, including sex offenders, are processed through the police station each year..Releasing criminals in close proximity of residential neighborhoods is not as preferable as releasing them into a high visibility commercial area.  Then you add in the additional traffic, lighting and other commercial aspects that a police station brings and you can see why someone with children who purchased a newly built home next door may not want the police station next door...    

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by: curveguy @ Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 13:39:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Call Me Crazy (0.00 / 0)

But I just think the unlikeliest place for anyone to commit a crime is directly outside the police station they were just released from.  

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by: stebivule @ Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 19:17:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sex offenders? (0.00 / 0)

Seriously - now you lost me. As if you think a sex offender can't walk from Dedham square down High street? If you're going to play the NIMBY card, just do it - don't play the sex offender card. People do live near Dedham square, and as far as I know, no children have  been murdered by Mr Stranger Danger in the last forty years I've been around.  

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by: manorman @ Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 02:47:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]