Police Station Status

No study as of April (3.00 / 1)

I attended the BPCC meeting held in late April. At that time no feasibility study was ever referenced. How was it funded and as pointed out above where is it? Here is the Patch link to the neighborhood meeting held by the BPCC for input:
http://dedham.patch.com/articl...
Seems like it was done deal although no one wanted to admit it at the time.  

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by: Dan63 @ Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 15:01:00 PM UTC

Found Some info (3.00 / 1)

At the direction of the Town Administrator, I was pointed to: http://www.dedham-ma.gov/index...

This is the link to the Powerpoint presentation.

Bill promise to forward the full Study to me soon.

What I found interesting was that during the Article 7 debate, it was brought up that the BPCC was not the proper committee to do a Study, yet for the Police station it is.

I was also interested in what 50K gets the Town of Dedham and to have somethign to base the Senior Site Committee against. I'll guess that some of the sites under future consideration would be the same, so that information could be leveraged.

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by: cebonvini @ Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 17:14:21 PM UTC

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Good Points... (0.00 / 0)

It sounds like another issue has arisen, their is now debate as to which committee or board should have the task of choosing the site and funding sources for Town capital building projects.

Do you think the newly created "Senior Site Committee" should become a permanent committee used strictly for "Site and Funding" analysis for any future Town projects?

Once they give their recommendation, it would be handed off to the BPCC. It would be one less task for the BPCC, they would focus on the bidding and construction phase, just a thought.

Of course it should be comprised of all affected Town Dept's.  

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 20:45:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

what we don't have . . . (4.00 / 1)

. . . is a standing committee to do that facilities planning work.

Arguably it could be in the scope of the BPCC but it might be too much responsibility for them to be overseeing  construction/development projects and doing the "planning ahead" work, too. For example, it's hard for me to imagine that one committee effectively overseeing construction of a police station while trying to work out how we use the Endicott Estate in the future.

The skill sets to do those two jobs are quite different, too.

Last, the committee's makeup may be too narrow in its representation to do the facilities planning for the Town.

The Charter Commission is doing its work, and hopefully they are paying attention to this gap in our Town's  capabilities.

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by: FredCivian @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 22:21:00 PM UTC

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Of Course It Was A Done Deal! (0.00 / 0)

The BOS and TA also thought they had a done deal with the COA putting a Senior Center on Endicott Estate, but, ohhh, too bad, the lost by only 5 votes`(

I thought Carmen D. mentioned at the Special Town meeting that the BPCC did a feasibility study for the new Police Station. I thought I heard him say, they looked a multiple sites before choosing the St. Mary's parking lot. I think one has been done but it sure seems like it was a secret to me.

How was it funded is a good question, Bill Keegan did mention that the BPCC did have about $10k left in its fund to do a feasibility study, they must have had some money stashed away, again, without most people knowing about it!

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 20:14:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Police Study (3.00 / 1)

Is this what you were looking for?  The second slide may answer your other questions.

This report is based on information gathered by visual observations of the building and site by Dore & Whittier Architects, Inc. and their consultants on July 21, 2009, a review of Owner provided drawings (Kilham, Hopkins, Greeley & Brodie Architects dated Feb 7, 1962 and the Carell Group dated February 21, 1997) as well as discussions with public safety staff.

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 17:14:16 PM UTC

No mention (3.00 / 1)

of the old Avery? I would think they would have updated the data from 2009. Has anything else changed since 2009, a vacant Northeastern building for instance. And is this the model process we are to follow? I hope not.  

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by: Dan63 @ Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 21:46:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"They" would have updated it? (0.00 / 0)

The town hired an architectural firm to do a single study.  Not to do ongoing research on the topic, which would be insanely expensive.

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by: plums @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 20:26:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"They" are the BPCC (3.00 / 1)

"They" have 10K for a feasibility study according to the TA so "They" could have engaged with the architectural firm to look at one or both of the sites mentioned above. I do not expect them to have a firm on retainer but "They" should have up to date information when making a recommendation. "They" obviously did not look at all options which is supposedly what some of the criticism was for the COA.    

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by: Dan63 @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 21:18:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

In 2009, Avery was not an option. (0.00 / 0)

You are comparing the COA doing a feasibility study on 1 site, to the police feasibility study of 10 sites. Even if Avery was an option, do you want to pay an architectural firm $10,000 to redo the study, just to confirm what everyone knows: that the Avery is unsuitable? That building is a money pit. That the town has shown itself to be unwilling to pay to renovate. It is amazing we found renters who would raise funds for capital improvements on that site.

The police study didn't include the Striar Property either. Presumably because it is reserved for the Senior Center.  And is clearly unsuitable for a number of other reasons.    I am sure the firm was told to focus on viable properties: the police need to be central and visible.

I don't know about the Northeastern property. Isn't that campus practically in Needham? Again, it appears they focused on rather central and highly visible spots.  

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by: plums @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 21:48:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Avery is unsuitable? (0.00 / 0)

Based on what data? I never stated that 10K needed to be spent but a firm with expertise in what it would cost to renovate should have looked at the Avery.
And based on your criteria above please explain how the Dexter School, Red Cross/ Rustcraft, Wilson Ave., Bank of America and Bridge Street are central and visible and viable properties.
The only municipal building that can be placed on the Striar Property is a Senior Center by order of the State Legislature.  

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by: Dan63 @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 22:06:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Avery ReUse Committee (0.00 / 0)

The Avery reuse committee's report says:

Police Chief D'Entremont said that while his department had need for a new departmental headquarters, the Avery site location and size would preclude its re-use without substantial renovations and/or demolition and associated costs. He said the department might consider making use of a small portion of the site for temporary or even permanent police substation.

That was in 2012, but, I assume the Chief had some influence all along in selecting which sites were vetted.

I didn't know that tidbit about the Senior Center. I've heard reference to "space set aside for a Senior Center" at the Striar property but hadn't heard that was to the exclusion of all others.  Oh well.  Maybe we can get a YMCA?

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by: plums @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 23:12:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gonzales Field (3.00 / 1)

Interesting that according to page 7 of the Powerpoint, Gonzales Field scored highest in terms of desirability as a new site for the police station. I wonder why that was never pursued?

Of course, page 7 isn't the be-all, end-all. According to it, the current site is more desirable than St Mary's lot.

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by: plums @ Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 20:29:24 PM UTC

Gonzalez Field Was Number 1 In The Study... (0.00 / 0)

The only reason they did not go with that location is a conflict with the Park & Rec's. If the Town wanted to take 3 acres for a Police station, it would have to find and give the P&R 3 acres in a swap, from some other spot of Town owned land.

Low and behold, in meetings between Town Hall and P&R, they could not find a lousy 3 acres anywhere in Dedham to give them, so they settled on St. Mary's parking lot instead.

That's what they said, but don't let them fool you. They had St. Mary's lot as there top choice from day one. Because, it would be the quickest and cheapest way out. They said they listened to the neighbors, they did and took a meeting vote, 63-2 against using St. Mary's. So, it went in one ear and out the other!

Somehow, all the issues brought up by the neighbors magically disappeared!

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 00:12:36 AM UTC

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A lousy three acres? (0.00 / 0)

Gonzales Field is protected park land.  In order to convert it into something else it requires a vote of the General Court.  The usual rule up there is, as you say, an even swap of land.

Where, exactly, does the Town have an extra three acres of land lying around they could convert into a park?  Or would you prefer we took a half dozen houses by eminent domain, evict the families living there, knock down the houses, and put a new park in what used to be someone's living room?

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 03:04:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I can name a few acres (3.00 / 1)

Technically all of the 29 acres up at the Dexter school are in Town control, and not protected park land.

Same can be said for the six plus acres that was the old town dump behind Stop and Shop, though that property has other issues (not properly capped).

You could also look at the Endicott Estate property, as that is not protect park lands either.

I'm sure I could rattle off a few more parcels, but those three are the big ones.

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by: cebonvini @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 16:36:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Endicott? (0.00 / 0)

Careful Carl, designating it parkland might exclude it as a potential site for a senior center. Don't forget the Dolan Center which has not yet been designated as parkland.  

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by: Dan63 @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 17:18:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Possible Swap Site... (0.00 / 0)

My choice would be to give the P&R 3 acres from the old dump
behind Stop & Shop, as Carl mentioned. I'm not sure what the State would say about any time frame in order to make it usable for activities.

I realize it would be a long process but I feel it would be worth doing in order to put the proposed Police Station at Gonzalez Field instead of St. Mary's lot.

It will most likely never happen because the BOS already have their minds made up.

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 20:19:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Screw over parks & recs really means (0.00 / 0)

screw over kids.  Isn't Gonzoles field used for soccer now?  

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by: plums @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 22:23:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dump controlled by P&R (0.00 / 0)

It is already under P&R

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by: Dan63 @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 15:50:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Swap" (4.00 / 1)

I too would like to throw my support behind the plan to build fields for kids on top of whatever land has the highest levels of toxic chemicals and carcinogens. Oh, and if we can make that land so inaccessible that you have to actually drive out of town to get to it, that would be great.

This proposed swap sounds a lot like those trades proposed on WEEI "I say we give em three minor leaguers and they give us Evan Longoria and David Price."

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by: stebivule @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 16:09:12 PM UTC

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It's Not Impossible... (0.00 / 0)

Have you heard of "President's golf course" in Quincy?

It was one of the worst, polluted dumps in the State. They cleaned it up and now it's a beautiful golf course.

Access would need to be worked on.

It can be done, no need to get testy.

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 20:22:00 PM UTC

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Easy then (0.00 / 0)

We could just put the police station there!

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by: plums @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 21:30:36 PM UTC

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???? (4.00 / 1)

What do you think Memorial Field is?

That was the Town Dump prior to the one behind the Stop and Shop ... but wait .. it gets better .. this was before there were rules about capping old dumps. To this day a tire will pop up out of the ground.

Do you really think Longoria is worth 100 mill?

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by: cebonvini @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 20:24:40 PM UTC

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In 10 years on P&R (0.00 / 0)

No tires or other trash have pop upped out of the ground at Memorial.  When the new concession stand was build, we went down 10 feet and didn't hit anything dangerous.

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by: JM @ Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 15:01:14 PM UTC

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re-use of former dump land (3.00 / 1)

In response to Stebivule's comment:

Millenium Park in West Roxbury (behind Home Depot) was at one time a huge dump. It was capped and is now a beautiful recreational area. Also, I have been told by 2 different  Dedham lifers that Gonzalez field used to be a former rail yard. If that's the case then there obviously have been no safety concerns for kids playing soccer on that field.

I agree that Gozalez field makes the most sense. It's close to the town center and would have access to Route 1. I think it should be seriously reconsidered.

It does amuse me that given we live in a town that is 10 square miles, some folks make a fuss out of having to drive "all the way across town" to get to one place or another.   Would driving to a soccer field at the Dexter School really be THAT big of a deal?  I grew up in another suburb of Boston, 30 miles further from the city than Dedham is. Driving 15 minutes across town just to get to school was the norm.  

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by: marben103 @ Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 03:03:47 AM UTC

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Good Post... (0.00 / 0)

I really feel if the BOS and TA really wanted a Police and or Fire Station combo at Gonzalez they could find a way to do it. For them its much quicker and easier to place it at the St. Mary's lot.

They might have to take the Staples building by eminent domain, it would be worth waiting several years for it to finalize but give them the entire lot plus the field for a Police/Fire combo building.

My major concern is when there is a Mass at the St. Mary's church, a funeral procession at the funeral home and a line a cars down to the cemetary and the police crusier wants to go 50 mph in pursuit of one of the 3 recent Dedham bank robberies in the past month, good luck!

Not to mention the siren noise affecting all the above and to the senior home next door to the lot.

It seems it comes down to what ever is the quickest and easiest as opposed to mid/long term planning.

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 21:50:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Siren Noise (3.00 / 1)

I can tell you as a former resident of Dedham Square that the neighbors on High Street have little to worry about when it comes to the sound of police sirens.  I lived perhaps 100 yards from the Police Station, behind the old Dedham Savings and across from the Post Office parking lot.  It was far, far more common to hear a fire engine rolling down Washington Street than it ever was to hear a police car.  Even in the summer, with all the doors and windows open, I don't remember it being a problem at all.   In fact, the trucks delivering the mail were much louder than the police ever thought of being.  There was no noise issue at all being a neighbor of the police.  

myDedham.org - a community since 1636 and online since 2007!

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by: Brian @ Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 04:04:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

meetings between Town Hall and P&R (0.00 / 0)

Could you please provide the date, location and minutes of these meetings.  

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by: Dan63 @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 15:09:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Meeting Reruns On Dedham TV... (0.00 / 0)

I watched the BOS say this at one of their past meetings, I don't have the info, but it should be on the Town's web site.

But unfortunately, many times meeting minutes are not posted for several months or sometimes not at all. It's an ongoing issue.

Feel free to contact Town Hall.

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 19:56:22 PM UTC

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No need to contact TH (0.00 / 0)

I ask about these meetings seeing that I am a P&R Commissioner and have never had a discussion about Gonzalez nor been invited to a meeting. Who from the BOS meeting made this comment.

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by: Dan63 @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 15:51:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Any BOS Member.. (0.00 / 0)

You can ask Carmen D., he and others had mentioned at several meetings when asked about the location of the proposed new Police Station at the St. Mary's lot, they said, "we have had discussions with the P&R and we could not find 3 acres anywhere in Dedham to give them in a land swap."

Feel free to ask any of them and see if this is not true.

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by: OakdaleLifer @ Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 20:17:06 PM UTC

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You need to ask (0.00 / 0)

I believe you need to ask one of the BOS if you are going to make the statement or quote a board member to confirm the validity.  

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by: Dan63 @ Sun Dec 02, 2012 at 16:09:17 PM UTC

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Has anyone (0.00 / 0)

considered multi-bank/red cross on rustcraft road? The building could be used for a variety of town offices/police station/fire station/senior center. The location seems more than ideal and already has plently of parking. Last time I drove by there was a real estate sign in front of it. Any ideas?

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by: GreenBandit @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 17:08:56 PM UTC

Read the powerpoint (0.00 / 0)

It was considered fully.

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by: plums @ Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 17:21:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]